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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Completely agree and posted mostly the same take on Billy K above, before scrolling down to read the rest of the thread.

Just listened to 11-11-73 Dark Star through the end last night and it never fails to amaze. That MLB jam on is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. Up there with the beautiful jam from 2-18-71.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 10:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Yeah the point in that Star I was referring to has kind of a swirling effect; all of a sudden Billy starts spewing out an uncontainable rhythm that explodes and twirls and spits out glittering ashes - reminds me of Ringo's famous drumming in "tomorrow never knows", not in style, but in impact and the "bigness" of the way it feels to me. I'm not a very good wordsmith but I think I've described it as well as I ever possibly could.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 12:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I'm inclined to agree with you on "the best years ... in terms of spontaneous inspiration," probably because of the turn-on-a-dime aspect, though I do find it hard to compare 60s and early 70s because it's almost apples and oranges. OK, maybe tangarines and clementines, but you know what I mean.

But that's really a point about excellence, not about indespensability. No JG, no Dead, right? So, no BK, no ... turn-on-a-dime Dead? Jazzy Dead? Really good Dead? That's not actually the same as "no Dead."

I think it's possible to say that someone added something amazing, or that he was in the driver's seat quite often, without being indespensable.

But it's interesting to hear the thoughts on this -- especially with specific examples. Regardless of whether I end up agreeing or not, it's definitely helping me to hear more of what BK was doing. I've probably less conscious of that in part because of the two drummer phenomenon. I find it hard separate them with certainty, except that Bill is more jazzy and Mickey is more tribal and military regimental (as I'd put it ... non-technical, I think, and maybe wrong, but that's how I think of it).

I do know the band considered BK the key anchor; in fact, there was a particular drum, wasn't there? His bass drum or something? (See how much I know, LOL?) But I guess I differentiate "anchor" (which is about enabling the sound) from "sound" per se. It's spinning theoretical wheels or parsing straws or something, but that's my take on it, at this point anyway ...






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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 7:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I think we've reached the point where there is really no argument anymore, just a disagreement on terms. To me, the "dead sound" is whatever it was during whatever era you're referring to; if Jerry had taken a break for a couple years and the rest of the band had continued touring under that name with a different guitarist, that would be the "dead sound" for that era as far as I'm concerned. I think you just use the phrase "dead sound" to refer specifically to the sound cultivated by the three guitarists of the band, and that's cool.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Oh, sure. I think it's basically all just a disagreement over terms -- and terms with highly speculative conditions, LOL. The whole idea of a core is a mental construct, and like most patterns or labels, it's way more rigid than the reality; it's like asking who should or shouldn't be in the literary canon, or who were the leading surrealists, as if there's One Answer.

But it can be kind of an interesting way to clarify how you look at things. Sometimes you learn things along the way, amidst the babbling and rambling. As long as you don't think there will actually be, ya know, a Conclusion where somebody Concedes and somebody else Wins :-)

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

I WIN

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 16, 2010 8:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

No way , MC . I started a whole thread thingy on this .
WE WIN ! ; and another plus , AR is on her way ....

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 17, 2010 4:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Reread the last two sentences, buckos. If you think you win, you don't. Besides, I just RSVPd to that Barbara Boxer party, and after they give the address, they give the secret words that get you into the inner sanctum: "Always Listen to AltheaRose."

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 17, 2010 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

Lord , who can refute the BBoxer secret password .I stand down AR .
Not really . Imagine going to that . What a comfortable , friendly setting . They would use me as kindling ( or definitely try ) .
I could directly appeal to the big scholarly guns , LiA , Cliff , and others , but I will not push my luck ( or yours , Ha ) . So it's stubborn vs. stubborn ( does your family know of this condition ? :-} ) .
BK was core 4
BK was core 4
Bk was core 4
Now I have exhausted all my logic and resources , AR
C'est fini .

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jul 18, 2010 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann

LiA, Cliff, etc have had more sense than to get involved.

As for my family, they're a bunch of traitors. They're on your side. My 14-year-old has concluded: "Most drummers are not indespensable, but I think he adds a certain ZEST." Zest. Nice.

But I think they'll ultimately swing to my side, or I'll force them to come to the Boxer party with me.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 18, 2010 6:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Billy Kreutzmann / 2 Weeks To Go AR !

So true about ' the big guns ' . I mean look at us in our sandbox . It wasn't me who spilled any of my juice . It was you !
I'm paying your family . They are businesspeople not traitors . I mean , what limits are there in stubborn vs stubborn ? None ? Little ?
You however , hold certain trump cards . Very expensive trump cards , at least for me for their continuing loyalty .
Your 14 year old is following the plan quite well . I said to begin with a more soggy word , but it's already up to zest . By next week it will be indispensable . Then in about 2 weeks you will be starting your very own thread . I haven't come up with the title yet . I hope I have enough money for this .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw7dBg9D2Z4